GT: So define new media. Give us a classic definition.
JJ: No one has been able to do that to anyone's satisfaction. I don't want to be the 20-millionth person to try. But new media has really been a catch-all phrase to encompass the work that has the strictures of modernist orthodoxy, people letting off steam and playing with stuff that normally is frowned upon.
GT: In terms of the technology itself?
JJ: For example, people not painting.